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PocketCastsLinks discussed in the podcast:
Gooding Funeral Services: https://goodingfuneralservices.co.uk/
Mother of Abundance Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/motherofabundance
Transcript
Xina 0:06
Hello and welcome to the Mother of Abundance podcast, where ambitious, caring mothers find information on how to live your best life. So whether you’re a mother who’s growing a business, climbing the corporate ladder, studying for qualification or an at home mother, while striving to be the best you can be, you’re in the right place. I’m your host Xina Gooding Broderick.
Welcome back to Mother of Abundance!
You may have noticed we had a bit of a break. That was not by design. I had my first fantastic interviewee and decided I was going to make that into two podcast episodes, and wanted to use some more advanced software than I had been using. And was recommended some software called Descript, which is on the surface absolutely fantastic, did not work for me. I had a really really tough time editing the podcast to the point where I just couldn’t release it on time. So I apologise profusely for that.
I am back though, and in this episode, I have the fantastic Gay Gooding Kershaw, who is one of the directors of my family business, Gooding Funeral Services. In this interview, we’re going to be covering how her career trajectory has been. She is an ambitious mother, and is incredibly shy. So it was a privilege for me to get her on the show for you to hear her fantastic story. And it’s so interesting. In this episode, we’re going to cover what she had set out to achieve when she left school, her ambitions at that point in time. And then we’ll go on to what she actually went on to do. And I’m sure you’ll find this interesting because she has worked at a particularly interesting place, which we’ll come on to in the episode. So I hope you enjoy listening.
Xina
I am so excited to be
Gay 2:39
Me too, me too!
Xina 2:40
I’m pleased because you are an ambitious mother. You are
Gay 2:45
You really think so?
Xina 2:46
Definitely. Yes you are even though you’re so, so very. You’re so humble just really humble about your achievements and all the rest of it. And spoiler alert for everybody Gay is my sister, and
Gay 3:00
Yes
Xina 3:01
I admire her so much. I’ve got like
Gay 3:05
It’s mutual admiration
Xina 3:05
Thank you. But the fact that Gay’s my sister is not the reason Gay is on here. It’s not the only reason I definitely want to explore with you Gay your journey as an ambitious mother, and how that has been for you. But I also want to talk to you about what it’s like working in a family business because Gay is my business partner. Along with my husband, we are three equal partners in our family business, which is Gooding Funeral Services. I want to get an insider’s view of your career trajectory. And how being a parent has impacted your ambitions or fuelled your ambitions depending on how you want to look it or how it went. And also did the way you started out. Is that the way you ended up? So when you left school, did you have a direct path. And there you are a company director and a business consultant which is what you also consult in business too. So if we just start at the beginning when you left school, what did you have in mind? What was that like for you?
Gay 4:16
Okay, so whilst I was at school, I wanted to go into fashion and clothing. And I applied for a course at Jacob Kramer college. It has to be said that my careers teacher at school said that I should consider going into cleaning or secretarial. I don’t know what the connection was, but yeah, cleaning or secretarial. Neither of which I fancied doing. I’m an artist. I love art and that’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to go into fashion. So I applied to Jacob Kramer. I was accepted at Jacob Kramer but then when it came to me going, they sent me a letter saying that I was unsuccessful. And Mommy had to speak to them, at which point they admitted that they had made me an offer, but they’d now filled my place. So I had to find an alternative to do because I was determined to reapply. So I worked at Alan’s chemist on YTS scheme youth training scheme.
Xina 5:19
Yeah,
Gay 5:21
I worked there have a great time, I learned a lot in the chemist. So I worked there. Whilst I was there, I did an additional qualification, along with the qualification that came with the YTS scheme, because I had to go to college for that. But I was also doing an AO level in social studies. And then I went to Jacob Kramer, and I did my course in fashion design and clothing technology. It was a diploma, that was really interesting, met some fantastic people. But then when I left, I obviously wanted to go into fashion. But at that time, the fashion industry wasn’t as prevalent as it once had been in Leeds, it was more clothing and textiles in Bradford. And there were some design units out in Castleford. I felt I wasn’t able to commute, I couldn’t drive or anything. And what was left the Leeds were things like T-shirt companies, and night shirt companies and pyjama companies. And that really wasn’t my thing.
So I applied to work in retail banking, I was there just prior to the launch, it was the bank prior to launch was called “Rain Cloud”, and that turned out to be First Direct.
So I started out in the call centre, and ended up working in the fraud department, which I found fascinating it was really interesting. And at one point, we were working together while
Xina 6:53
Yes we were
Gay 6:54
there, yeah, we work together at First Direct. And then I decided I wanted to leave Leeds, I wanted to do something completely different. So I moved to Manchester, and the joy of the civil service.
I started out as an admin assistant, and then became an admin officer, which meant that I was able to go on detach duty all over the country. That meant that any sister or similar branch of the civil service, who needed help, could call on us and we’d be sent out or like, flying admin officers. So I worked in Nottingham for three months, I was also posted down to London, Finsbury Square for a couple of months, which point I stayed with you because you were living in London then. And then I decided whilst I was living in Manchester, that I would like to move down to London,
Xina 7:52
Right
Gay 7:53
We decided that it would be a good idea for me to to move down to London.
So fortunately for me, because I’d worked in head office, and they really liked my work. They offered me a job down there for a permanent position. So I had no problem transferring from my job and my more or less my flat as well. I’ve managed to get my flat transferred a place to live down to London as well. And after a year or two of working in Finsbury Square, I decided I wanted to go into something more artistic.
At that point, I was living in central London, in Victoria actually, and I was a hop skip and a jump away from Pimlico Road and Pimlico Road, was famous for its high end art and antique dealers. I went for a job at a company called John Hobbs at that point, he was the most successful antique dealer, I think on the planet. I managed to land myself a job there as a personal assistant to his manager. And it was an incredible job. There was some incredible highs and incredible lows. It was really interesting. There was never a dull moment there.
I worked there for five, six years, something like that. But whilst I was there, I also I decided I wanted to go to university. I applied to King’s College London as an adult learner. I took a degree course in Portuguese Brazilian Studies and Applied Computing. It was really, really hard because I learned French at school. But the way we had been taught grammar was not the way most other schools were teaching grammar.
So I did struggle and I had to learn the correct grammatical terminology. So I had to understand what a noun is was. I couldn’t call it a naming word. I had to understand what an adjective was. So I had to learn conjugating verbs and all that. I had to learn what a verb was.
Xina 10:11
Yeah
Gay 10:11
It was a struggle I managed to do my first year, I struggled, because I had to learn not only the language, as well as the Brazilian Studies, which were fantastic, and the applied computing, which was amazing. But I was also struggling financially to pay the rent because I was a student, I didn’t get a grant, it was a student loan, I was living in central London,
Xina 10:37
Yeah
Gay 10:37
I didn’t have any other finances coming in. Other than the part time job at john Hobbs, that now allowed me to stay on part time. So I didn’t have any thing out any other finances coming in. So it was struggle.
And then my boss offered me more money, and better role because of the applied computing that I’ve been doing. I could take over as their web manager, and build their site and manage their site, as well as working in the office and doing my other job as well. So I’ve got a better job more money. And as a poor student, do I continue trying to work out how to feed myself? Or do I go back to a really luxurious job? And I took the money and went the luxurious job.
Xina 11:21
So you could say, in your career, at least once you could be made an offer you couldn’t refuse?
Gay 11:28
Yeah, yes.
Xina 11:30
So that in terms of ambition, that’s not such a bad thing, really
Gay 11:36
No, I guess you kind of see it’s about seeing opportunities and recognising that they’re an opportunity, and taking the risks and going with that opportunity when you recognise it for what it is like.
Xina 11:51
That’s interesting to me as well because we come from a family of educators. So we are nerds. We don’t cower within that term is used to describe us because we just really are nerdy people we’re nerdy types we
Gay 12:03
I love, I love nerds. My children are nerds my nerd. I love I love I love it. Love all Yeah.
Xina 12:12
And we can really blame that on Mommy.
Gay 12:16
Ultimate nerd and she’s, she’s she’s a tech. She’s a tech head. Any form of tech head technology. She has to be there is
Xina 12:26
She has to get the latest phone the iPhone, the latest Macbook Pro, the latest iPad Pro, the latest watch whether it’s an apple watch or a Fitbit or whatever,
Gay 12:37
Yeah, yeah, she and she uses it. She uses them all. And she’s just not afraid of technology. She never has been. She worked at Technorth
Xina 12:45
She’ll tell you she is though. She’ll tell you. She’ll whilst she’s got all these gadgets that she’s mastered. She’ll still say Oh, no good with technology. Yeah. Mommy, you talking to us remember? But
Gay 12:57
It’s the same with languages. Mommy has always learnt Spanish. She’s a Spanish speaker she learned from school. And yet she did. She took it up as an extra curricular activity alongside her general life has always learned an additional language. So that’s why when it came to me going for Portuguese, it didn’t seem that weird. Yeah, I didn’t get on with French so much at school. But I wanted to learn Portuguese because I wanted to go to Brazil. And I wanted to live and work there. Mommy made it seem really easy and manageable and doable. So I feel very lucky that I’ve had that sort of background.
Xina 13:35
So just just that is fantastic. That’s fantastic and you’ve answered a question that a lady that I know from the Mother of Abundance Facebook group has asked, but I’m gonna come back to that later.
Gay 13:47
Okay.
Xina 13:47
But what I wanted to say was, we come from a family where education is really key. So you and I, we have children who are either at university or who have attended University, or are likely to go to university as well, because we’ve got children at different ages.
Gay 14:06
Yes
Xina 14:06
So we promote and we recommend education and learning. Has you taking up on that opportunity, the offer that you couldn’t refuse? How did that turn out for you as someone who believes in education but left?
Gay 14:21
It works out for me? It worked out for me because through that job, I had elevated career status.
Xina 14:30
Yes
Gay 14:31
I had more money coming in.
Xina 14:33
Yeah.
Gay 14:34
They needed me to do all sorts of things in that job and I couldn’t do them unless I drove. So they paid for me to learn to drive. They gave me the opportunity to buy my first car from them. Actually, I bought my first car from them. They gave me a loan to buy that car. So I was able to buy my first car in instalments. I was able to drive around central London in their latest cars, running errands and all sorts of things as part of my job.
So I completed my first year at university and a passed, that was fine.
Xina 15:10
Yeah.
Gay 15:10
But I didn’t complete the entire course. But I succeeded in other ways. So that job gave me a lot of other positives. One a lot of positives that came.
And actually can I just say, as well, that didn’t see the positives, all the positives,
Xina 15:28
Had you not?
Gay 15:28
from my previous positions until further down the road. Yeah, I mean, you know, working in a civil service, It’s not every day that your employer actually pays for you to move to another city,
Xina 15:44
That’s true
Gay 15:45
It’s not every day that your employer enables you to move your secure rental status from one city to another.
Xina 15:54
Yeah.
Gay 15:54
And when you’re actually going through it, I mean, it wasn’t easy, because there were a lot of hoops to jump through a lot of forms to fill a lot of holding on telephone lines and all that. And at the time, you don’t really see the benefit, you’d see your telephone bill going up because you’ve been on hold for so long, you see that you’ve been sending off letters to the wrong department, because no one’s told us the correct department, or you’ve been trying to communicate but you’ve been speaking to the wrong person, and months and months and months that goes on. And once you’re in the thick of it, you don’t see the benefits. It’s only with hindsight, that you can see the benefits.
So that’s what I’m saying about the job at John Hobbs. For a long time, I could only see the things that weren’t so great. But with hindsight, I can see the good things that came out of that as well. And the good things that have come out of many of the situations, opportunities, experiences I’ve had in life generally.
Xina 16:53
Yeah. Well, we’re gonna talk a little bit more about John Hobbs before we move on to the other things that you did. So you and I have worked together several occasions.
Gay 17:05
Yes.
Xina 17:06
The first time we work together, we were cleaners. And that was a job. You got me?
Gay 17:11
Yeah, I don’t really want to prove my careers. advisor right or anything. But we did that whilst I was a Jacob Kramer. So it was additional it was student pocket money.
Xina 17:22
Yeah
Gay 17:23
They were always really, really, really lovely. And we did our job. We had our keys without ourselves in, we let ourselves out. We locked up, we were invited to their Christmas parties,
Xina 17:34
Yeah we were, weren’t we? I’d forgotten about that.
Gay 17:37
So it was a really nice, nice job to have. As a student. I really didn’t see that as not progressing. It was fun working with you. It was fun. Having an extra little additional income whilst I was at college. It was fun. It was nice. And I really enjoyed that
Xina 17:56
I was still at school I’d done babysitting before and I’d also got my first job with the proper payslip. And that was a Tescos. That was my first formal job when I needed an NI number and all the rest of it. And then we did the cleaning together. We also went on to work together at first direct, is you’d mentioned that you were in the fraud department and I was around the corner. I actually can’t remember what I did there.
Gay 18:21
Were you in the call centre?
Xina 18:22
I feel like I was in the call centre. But I don’t remember calling anyone which is really weird. I don’t remember anyone calling me so that doesn’t really make much sense!
Gay 18:30
You don’t know what you were doing!
Xina 18:31
I’ve have no idea. No idea what I was doing. That doesn’t sound good, does it? Not at all.
You were permanent members stuff there and you were one of the start up members. And I was a temp there. And that
Gay 18:42
Yeah
Xina 18:42
was, kind of around the time that I started my career as a temp and I did secretarial too as advised by the careers person at school, which Mommy was not impressed with.
Gay 18:54
No Mommy wasn’t. Yeah.
Xina 18:56
So the point I’m making is that we’ve worked together several times and we also work together at John Hobbs. And you got me the job there as a Saturday girl. So yes, see, yeah, our listeners can probably recognise that there’s a bit of a pattern forming here.
We do work together, we get to the jobs and gig got me two jobs. I sorted myself out at First Direct. And you’ve got that first of all independently. And as you came and joined us at Gooding, thank God for that.
But before we move on to how that all panned out, for any ambitious mother, who’s listening to us to to hear a little bit of the high points and the kind of people that used to go to John Hobbs, and how that set you up in terms of your attitude towards service.
Gay 19:43
Oh, yeah. Okay. So as I say, John Hobbs was the most successful antique dealer. I think, globally when I joined, we dealt with a lot of interior decorators designers, and very, very influential rich people who expect service; it’s just a given that they’re going to get very good service over and above the rest what they expect from you run of the mill company.
They expect when they walk in that they are treated like royalty, and you do have to treat them like royalty. They expect you to be there before they arrive and be there long after they’ve gone just in case they need to turn up again or call you again. They’ve got a question at midnight. Now fortunately for me, I wasn’t taking calls at midnight that was outside my scope, but they would call at anytime we’d sometime have to close the gallery down to the public so that we could have royalty so well, I don’t think she’s really classed as royalty, Rain Spencer, who was Princess Diana’s mother, stepmother, at least once while I was there, we had to close gallery down to the public so she could come in.
And actually we had other high profile people who would, we’d have to close sections of the gallery at sections of the building off so that they could entertain friends or just come in have a glass of champagne, look at whatever they wanted to look at buy things or not buy things. We had to bend over backwards. But the reward for that is that those people spend money, they get their friends to come in and look around and spend closing off half a gallery closing off half a building so that Elton John can come in and entertain his friends means that Elton John will look on his favourably. And his friends will remember us and come back and spend.
So we were big names in the antiques trade. And quite rightly so actually. Because they took service seriously.
Xina 22:00
They did. And I certainly during my time there when I was Saturday girl, I remember that Sylvester Stallone had been there Steve Martin had been there Luther Vandross
Gay 22:09
Had come in.
Xina 22:10
Yeah, yeah.
Gay 22:12
Jennifer Aniston had been just loads, loads and loads of people. We had Élie de Rothschild, who came in he’s from he was heading up the French side of the Rothschild family, I had a conversation with him, it was very flattering. Just lots of lots of people. And you have to know how to provide good service. And remember before I joined them properly, when I told family and friends, some friends, they were dubious about my role there, they felt that I would be a token, or I might not actually get the job, the job would be taken away from me for some reason.
Basically, maybe I was out of my depth by even applying because I’m black and a woman and I was young then and I didn’t really pay them any attention. That’s what I wanted to do be somewhere in the creative industries. Working with fine art and antique was just right on my street was around the corner from where I lived, the people who interviewed me, actually the person, Charlie, who I’m still in touch with my old boss, I’m still in touch with them. I still love him. And I still send him birthday cards every year and a Christmas card. And I’ve got on with him, he accepted me for me. And it was always straight with me. And I got on with him like a house on fire. So yeah, don’t be put off by people around you, who might not have as much confidence in you, as you should have in yourself.
[click_to_tweet tweet=”Don’t be put off by people around you, who might not have as much confidence in you, as you should have in yourself.” quote=”Don’t be put off by people around you, who might not have as much confidence in you, as you should have in yourself.” theme=”style1″]
Xina 23:46
Thank you for that Gay. That’s really, really important because a lot of the ambitious mothers I speak to, they have a very acute difficulty from time to time with imposter syndrome it’s quite common. And it’s common with high achievers, lazy people don’t feel like imposters. They belong in their laziness.
Gay 24:12
It’s true.
Xina 24:13
People who don’t aspire. they don’t have that difficulty, you know, wondering “Should I really be here? Do I deserve this? And my clever enough? Have I got the skills enough to look the part?” So I’m really pleased. Thank you so much for sending that message out to ambitious mothers because it imposter syndrome is real. And if it is real anxiety,
Gay 24:33
We will all suffer it with it from time to time in our lives. And you just have to recognise it for what it is and have positive people around you who believe in you who will give you that hook or that reassurance when you need it.
Xina 24:50
Yeah,
Gay 24:50
Because sometimes you do need an extra bit of reassurance from someone outside your being. So surround yourself with positive, forward thinking people that will help you, it will propel you.
[click_to_tweet tweet=”Sometimes you do need an extra bit of reassurance from someone outside your being. So surround yourself with positive, forward thinking people that will help you, it will propel you.” quote=”…sometimes you do need an extra bit of reassurance from someone outside your being. So surround yourself with positive, forward thinking people that will help you, it will propel you.” theme=”style1″]
Xina 25:06
I agree with that 100%. One thing I am going to say at this point is that Gay, you and I, we are very fortunate, we’re going to move on to the life change that happened to you during your time at John Hobbs, and the support you had then at home, and what changed in your personal circumstances and moving into motherhood. But you’ve pointed out that it’s really important to keep positive people around you, I want to
Gay 25:35
Definitely
Xina 25:36
send a message. If you are an ambitious mother who’s listening to this, and you feel isolated in your ambition, please look at the Mother of Abundance Facebook group, it was created by me with people like you in mind, as well as people like myself and my sister who do have support. Not all of us have support. Not all of us have circles of friends who get it. Not all of us come from families who support us and really want us to move forward or they might want us to do forward but they’re not in a position to help us in a way that would really, really boost our confidence is so the Mother of Abundance Facebook group is there to help any ambitious mother who really wants to make progress in a supportive environment.
So Gay, I wanted to move on a little bit now to ask you what a life changing experience occurred to you of many. At John Hobbs.
Gay 26:35
Whilst I was at John Hobbs, I met someone, it didn’t work out at first, but we stayed in touch and we were friends for years. And then we eventually got engaged. And we got married whilst I was at John Hobbs to a fantastic Matthew, who absolutely love and adore. We’re still married is we just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary this year
Xina 26:59
Congratulations.
Gay 26:59
So thank you. When we got married, I continued on at John Hobbs and then we got pregnant with our first child. And then 17 months later, we had twins.
Xina 27:16
Lovely.
Gay 27:18
Wasn’t plan.
When I got married, I moved from Central London up to Hendon. Matthew had flat in Hendon, had a nice flat up there, his two bedroom flat, but it was on the fourth floor I think. Which was fine with one baby. But then when I had the twin pregnancy getting up and down the stairs with the push chair and the big bump and Matthew was petrified I’d fall down the stairs because there was no lift. There wasn’t going to be enough space Lily had her room but when we put the twins?
Anyway, so we decided for safety, amongst other things a garden and all that we would move further out up to Edgware we bought a house up in Edgware, but that purchase really crippled us really crippled us financially. Because we had to buy two sets of everything because Lily was still in her. She wasn’t in her cot. She was in a slightly larger bed. But I think by that time, so we had one cot, we had to buy another cot, we had to buy a double bogey, because I only had one but we had to buy so much more baby equipment. It was just very expensive together with a massive jump in mortgage. It was really hard.
So I wasn’t working I stayed at home and raised the children. We decided that it was too expensive to put the children in nursery and for me to go back to work.
Xina 28:54
Yeah
Gay 28:54
It made more sense for me to stay at home and not have the nursery fees. Because if I went into work, I’d be working just to send the children to nursery may as well stay at home.
Xina 29:06
Right, I’m with you, Okay
Gay 29:08
We may as well stay at home and have the children. I did need help. I did need additional help, particularly when they were very small and a slightly different stages of their development. So the money we would have otherwise spent on nursery fees.
Xina 29:25
Yeah
Gay 29:25
We put all the children in one room and put the au pair in another. So we got an au pair. And she helped around the house. She helped me actually leave the house because I couldn’t leave the house because I couldn’t find an affordable triple buggy. I bought one secondhand that kind of broke when I got down the street and I was stranded on the street with a broken triple buggy and three children two of whom couldn’t walk.
So having the au pair in was a godsend. Really, yeah. She was great. She was great. But then there came a point where the children needed more space and we had to choose between keeping the au pair on or sending the children to nursery part time.
Xina 30:11
Right
Gay 30:12
So that’s what we did. I mean, all along all the while, we were having to re mortgage and all that just to keep going, really because there was only the one salary coming in. It was very, very, very hard. But the children needed to mingle with other kids of their age, and they weren’t yet in primary school.
Xina 30:33
Did you plan on having children?
Gay 30:37
No, we we were not planning on having. Really, we hadn’t planned on having children because Matthew and I, Matthew and I were both convinced that we both sterile
Xina 30:48
Right. Okay, why did you decide that?
Gay 30:53
I’ve no idea. I have no idea, neither of us thought that we could have children. So once we got married, if we couldn’t have children, that’s not a problem. So then came Lily, and we thought, Oh, that’s just a hiccup. That’s not gonna happen again. And then nine months later, we find out we’re pregnant with twins. And
Xina 31:16
I blame this on Mommy. She clearly didn’t teach you about the birds of the bees and how that whole thing works!!. But that’s absolutely hilarious,
Gay 31:25
because we just,
Xina 31:26
I just assumed
Gay 31:28
We jus didn’t think we could get pregnant.
Xina 31:28
Because you are so so very organised. I was You know, Gay and Matthew they’ve planned this out and they’ve done this, and my gosh, they’ve got all their children in one go. She’s so efficient. And then she’s moved to a nice house in a lovely neighbourhood. And clearly it was, necessity, your circumstances and creating and developing and evolving. I have to say Gay, I commend you, because you, you and Matthew have consistently done a fantastic job. And you’ve made it look easy. I know it was challenging, to an extent
Gay 32:03
really challenging. Well, thank you
Xina 32:08
You’ve done a great job. But
Gay 32:10
Yeah, the kids are still alive. They’re all still alive. Even though I was convinced that I forget to feed them that they would starve to death.
Xina 32:19
Oh, my gosh,
Gay 32:20
Matthew had to convince me that I wouldn’t forget to feed them. They wouldn’t starve to death. Because if nothing else, they would remind me if they were hungry. But yeah, I’ve made sure that they were always fed in the end
Xina 32:34
I was always fed
Gay 32:35
doing something wrong. Oh, yeah,
Xina 32:36
I was always fed, because I got to your house, like after lunchtime, knowing that the leftovers on their plates that you’d piled up and have a full meal and be stuffed to the gills. So thanks for that
Gay 32:49
Yeah. You’re welcome. That’s because I’m paranoid. As Matthew says, You over learn, I over learn. I don’t want to starve my children. So they got food and then you got fed too?
Xina 33:01
I did, yeah, lots.
So you were at home with three children? You have your au pair. And that was through necessity. You’d put all of the children into one room and have the au pair into another
Gay 33:14
Yes.
Xina 33:14
You’re thinking now about nursery because the children need to socialise at this point.
Gay 33:18
Yes, yes, yes, they’re driving each other and me mad at home.
Xina 33:23
It might be obvious to a lot of mothers to some mothers more so than others. But what’s it like having three children so close in age? What was that like for them in their dynamic or tri-namic?
Gay 33:34
Okay. It’s well mine, because there’s a 17 month gap when they were very little, it was very difficult because it was like having triplets but one of those triplets was slightly more advanced than the other two. Lily stopped having naps, which I was relying on. I relied on the daytime nap that your children tend to have, so that I could get on with things and I could tidy things up and I could wash bottles and I could throw out nappies and I could do. I could do chores. I can just sort of sit in peace for two minutes. But Lily stopped that.
So she was ready. She needed other children her own age to be able to communicate with Reuben and Eloise they got along together more or less. Well, I’m kind of backtracking because they are very different. They are not identical twins, their boy girl twins. They’re fraternal twins. All My Children have very different identities.
Xina 34:37
Yes they do!
Gay 34:38
And they are forces of nature. And we are so, so lucky to have them. They’re just great kids.
So Reuben and Eloise would have got on if Eloise at that point, didn’t find interest in everything that Reuben had. And if she couldn’t get it, she would just basically beat him up, until she got what she wanted. And then when she’d finished beating him up, she turned on her big sister and beat her up. So they all needed their own space. Reuben needed space to be able to learn and play without fear for his life. Lily needed to just go off and have friends, you know, speak to kids and play with children of her own age, without fear of being attacked.
Xina 35:28
Yeah.
Gay 35:29
And Eloise really needed to be around other children let off some energy and run around and do all that they all needed to go to nursery. So half days, what we could afford
Xina 35:41
Right
Gay 35:41
half days were what was provided. And that’s what we did half days, pack lunches, so that when they’d have a mid morning break, they’d learn they’re singing and their alphabet and their basic reading, and they’re drawing and do all that at school, they made friends, we have playdates all the time, it was really good. And I got a chance to do the chores and go off and get the shopping in without, you know, worrying about how am I going to navigate a supermarket with three tiny children. And that was before you could get food internet deliveries, you couldn’t really do that. And then you pay through the nose for it, which we couldn’t afford.
So it was great for me to go out. And also I just started to meet people and meet the mums at nursery. During those mornings too and we’d both go back to collect our children at lunchtime and all that it was just good. It was good all around. So yeah, that’s that’s
Xina 36:40
So at that point. How were you in terms of your ambitions and was your ambition to stay at home and raise your children, which I, as you know, I feel quite strongly is a valid ambition for a parent to have is to stay at home and look after their family. I think that’s just as important as a corporate job, or…
Gay 37:00
Yeah, it is an important, it is so important. And if you are able to manage it, somehow you’ve got family support, if you’re working part time, or even if it’s a little bit difficult, but you can still manage it. And you’ve got friends that you can support and they can support you. So you might not be able to stay at home all day, every day to raise your children, you might be able to find a part time job, maybe a day a week, or maybe two mornings a week or something. And you’re privileged enough to have other financial support coming in, I would recommend the time you can spare with the children, whatever you can spare is valuable, your children will benefit from it. And they’ll appreciate it. And it’s good for you.
It’s good as a parent to have an extra bit of time, whatever they can spare or afford with their children.
Xina 37:57
Yeah,
Gay 37:58
That’s my belief. That’s my belief.
Xina 38:00
I talk a lot about that we’d work life balance, the number one challenge for the ambitious mothers, whether I’m coaching them, or if I’m speaking to them on social media, or even if it’s my friendship circles, it’s the work life balance and being able to get that connection with their children, their husbands, boyfriends, partners, family members, and close friends further outside of the home, it’s being able to get that valuable connection time.
And although it’s not always possible for people to stay at home, I really do encourage having some real good, valuable time with loved ones and your children. That’s something that won’t be regretted. But I also want to say that I recognize that there’s some women who would go crazy if they stayed at home with their kids. There was someone was like, “No, I need to get out of the house. I need to grownups and I need to have that balance.” And there’s room for both. And whilst
Gay 39:01
Yes absolutely
Xina 39:02
Whilst I know, one big ambition for mine was to be able to stay at home with my sons.
Gay 39:08
Yeah,
Xina 39:08
I’ve been able to do that. But I’ve been able to get real good value from being at home, and also from going out to the workspace. And that’s one of the reasons why I say to ambitious mothers, you define ambition on your terms. I’m not going to tell you what your ambition must be you can define that whether it’s a corporate job or owning your own business or, you know, being a solopreneur or mumpreneur or working from home or looking after your children full time and you’re 100% devoted to making sure that they are the happiest human beings you can help them to become there’s space for us all.
I know that I like staying at home with my son and I like working.
Gay 39:52
Well this is it and I am mindful of the fact that this is Mother of Abundance and I don’t want to take away from the fact that it can be any parent, either parent that’s
Xina 40:03
yeah
Gay 40:03
That spends time with their child or children. I don’t want to take away because I know there are fathers and grandparents out there who have an equal, important part to play.
I also want to say that whilst I was staying at home and looking after the children, I didn’t quite have the same perspective as I do now, this goes back to what I was saying about my job and not seeing the value and the good necessarily, because you’re too close to a thing. So for me at the time, I remember hearing myself a couple of times, people would ask me, what do you do? And I’d say, I’m just a mum, or I’m just, I’m a housewife. And more than once, people say, God, that’s a really valuable position. That’s a really valuable, meaningful role. You’re not ‘just’ anything.
But at the time, I thought, Oh, my God, I feel like I’m not going out to work. I’m not bringing any money in. We are having to make all these sacrifices, you know, we can’t go out, can’t buy new clothes, my clothes are like just for rolling around on the floor and my knees are covered in sick. And, you know, because I’m crawling around in the carpet, and the kids are throwing up all over the place. I’ve got chips in my bra and I keep finding peas in sofa.
I’m just a stay at home mom aren’t I? I’m just, but actually with hindsight, I can and deep down at the time, although I didn’t really want to admit it to myself, because I wanted to get back out there. I wanted to earn money. I wanted to bring some money and get the best computer and upgrade our car and do all those sorts of things. So you could get nicer car seats for the kids and all that. But actually, my children have benefited by me staying at home.
Xina 41:58
Without a doubt
Gay 41:58
I benefited. Yeah, I’ve benefited. Matthew has said that there is no way he could have stayed at home because he he loves his children.
Xina 42:07
Yeah,
Gay 42:07
he absolutely adores his children. But he needed to be out. You needed to be out earning the money. And I was the best person in our particular partnership to raise the children. And given our circumstances at the time, that was the right thing for us to do. And I absolutely don’t regret it. And my children have benefited from it and have told me, they told me so.
Xina 42:31
Wow. Well, that’s fantastic. So I have to say I’ve benefited from it too, because it was great having my sister at home around the corner when I was around as well. That was really nice.
So why did you go back to work? Was it because you felt like you were, at the time, – was it because he felt like you were “just a housewife” as you put it in inverted commas?
Gay 42:51
As I say I had wanted to earn some money. But at this point, my children and all now joined primary school, I think Reuben and Eloise were in reception and Lily was in year two. So I was enjoying the fact that I could drop them off in the morning, I can do all my chores, and I could go to the gym and I could get the shopping in and I could start making lunch and I could have time to myself. And I could see my friends have now started to have friends who are my friends, not the children’s friends.
Xina 43:20
Yeah.
Gay 43:21
And I’d settle into motherhood, I was really now enjoying it because I had a little bit more space. And my house wasn’t covered in sick. And it was was just easy. It was just easier. The kids were talking and walking. And it was interesting and easy.
And Matthew said “yeah, but, uh, but you can’t get a job, you can’t get a job”. And I thought I can. He threw down the gauntlet. Basically, he challenge me. I don’t know whether that was by design or what but I thought I’m not letting that stand because I can get a job.
So I thought to myself, what can I do, which would allow me to have the school holidays so I can have time off with the children. I know that if I work a role in a local authority, schools… schools they’re good, I didn’t care what role it was in a school, I’ll have a look for school jobs.
So I went online and looked at the job section of the local authority page. And I happened to see a job in a secondary school there was just up the road for me. And at that time, we did have a car I was driving, that wasn’t ever going to be an issue. I went for the job, went for the interview, and I got the job. I got the first job that I had applied for I got it and it was really convenient.
Xina 44:43
Well, wasn’t that fantastic? A great place to end the first part of this two part interview with Gay Gooding Kershaw. And just to recap, Gay has covered such things as a teacher’s said she should be a cleaner or a secretary even though she was clearly a creative. She changed career from design to banking after she’d qualified as a fashion designer. She joined the civil service when she’d moved to Manchester, which gave her the opportunity to travel nationally, and supported her move down to London. What university life was like for her as a student living independently in central London being made an offer she couldn’t refuse, and what that involved and how working in that organisation profoundly impacted on her attitude to service. Imposter syndrome, and the importance of surrounding yourself with positive forward thinking people. How Gay inadvertently came to have three children under the age of 17 months,
and the benefits to her and her children for staying home with them, and why she went back to the workplace.
To hear the second part of this fantastic interview where Gay discusses moving from being an education professional into business ownership in a family business, please tune in next Monday. No more technical hiccups with Descript I assure you, the next episode is already in the bag. So I look forward to you joining me then for the next episode of the Mother of Abundance podcast.
Have an abundant day and an abundant week.
Thank you for listening to the mother of abundance podcast. With your host Xina Gooding Broderick. Sign up at Mother of Abundance.com for your free copy of the Planning Your Best Life & Living It Every Day Workbook. See you on the next episode.
What were your plans when you left school? Does what you do now have anything to do with what you studied at university? I’d love to read your comments and feedback below!
